Relationships with women and tales of regret
When I was growing up, my relationships with women were unusual. This article covers a time line that stretches from my early teenage school days, right through to my mid twenties, and as such, covers situations that happened at school, university and in my early work life. This article is deeply personal, and contains mild sexual references – if this isn’t your thing, then you may want to skip this one.
Throughout this time in my life I was ignored by a great many of my female peers – almost as though I was invisible (something, incidentally, which Rachel writes wonderfully about here). In a sense, that didn’t bother me. I felt no great desire to interact with these young women – whilst many of my male class-mates and work colleagues found them to be hugely attractive, I didn’t.
Those that did interact with me – well that was a completely different story, and one that perplexed me until very recently. Maybe once or twice a year on average, someone who I was either at school or work with would discover me. They would always make the first move, and start talking to me. Whilst I find group conversation difficult, I have always enjoyed talking one to one with others. I can manage this sort of conversation quite well, and it allows me to feel a connection with others. Over the years I often found myself doing quite a lot of it with young women.
And at this point, expectations and desires started to go in different directions. For their part, the young women found a bright young man that they could get on with. Someone that they found strangely easy to talk to. Someone they could confide in and be themselves with.
Whilst I may have found this too, I invariably found something else. I started to see beauty. Not beauty in the sense that people typically use the term. Some of these women were, of course, conventionally visually beautiful, but the beauty I was seeing was in how they functioned and thought – all of what they were was beautiful. The more I spoke to them, the more beautiful they appeared to be to me, and the more I fell in love with them.
Ah. A hopeless story on many levels. They found an unusual thing – a male friend who they could treat like a female friend. Some of them revelled in this for a while. I found unrequited love, and that ultimately lead to the end of most of these friendships.
You see, whilst I may be unconventional in the way I interact with people due to my lack of social intuition and sometimes even basic social skills, I’m still often engaging to talk to one to one. But whilst I’m clearly a gentle guy that doesn’t use body language that suggests that I’m trying to hit on you, I still feel those typical male urges. Perhaps my definition of attractiveness in a woman is different to my peers, but it is still very much there.
These friendships caused me a great deal of pain over the years. They are nothing, however, to the despair caused by missed opportunities.
There were only a small handful of these, and for the most part, they happened in my early work years, whilst I was single, and living in London. A woman I worked with would take the usual route of striking up a conversation with me, and would find, to her surprise, someone who she really like to talk to. No surprise here for me, of course, it was what I was used to. And then after a month or two, typically after a social evening at a pub, or at a party at someone’s house, it would happen. She’d make a pass at me. I’d miss it. Seriously. My uncertainty and lack of confidence meant that I acted too aloof when suggestions were made that could have lead to intimacy. Nothing intimate ever happened.
Like the time after a house party full of work colleagues, where many of us had decided to hang around until morning. A female friend of mine was in one of the beds, and had recently stripped off, complaining of being too hot. I was at the other end of the room, laying on the chaise longue. We’d been chatting with the female host, but she’d made some excuse to go and chat with someone else, so we were now alone. We were both quite drunk and stoned. My female friend took off her glasses, yawned, stretched and then smiled at me. She made a few little snuggly wriggles under the duvet, and then suggested that instead of shouting across the room, I should come over to the bed to talk with her. She even patted the bit of bed next to her. I didn’t. I stayed where I was – I could hear her just fine. We chatted some more, and eventually, our host rejoined us, and ultimately sleep overtook all of us. I slept on the chaise longue, and they shared the bed.
It wasn’t until the next day, having caught an early tube home, and after I’d caught up on some sleep, and shaken off the hangover, that I started to think over the events of the night before, and what was actually going on. The removal of clothes, the excuses made by our host to leave us alone. She even shut the bedroom door on her way out. The subtle but clear suggestions from my friend. At the time, I missed it all. Did I find my friend attractive? Of course. Could I have shared intimacy with her? Absolutely. If she’d said, “come over here and kiss me,” would I have reacted differently? I suspect so.
To this day, that night frequently haunts me and fills me with deep regret. Right now talking about it is nearly bringing tears to me eyes. How could I have missed what was so obvious?
And then there was the time that a group of us had a night out and agreed to all go back to someone’s flat and go our separate ways in the morning. A female friend from work who had been chatty with me for a few months was there. She confided early on in the evening that there was someone else there who fancied her, and that she couldn’t stand. Could I help her out? There weren’t enough beds for everyone, and the chap she didn’t like had suggested that they share a bed a the end of the night – purely in a platonic way. She wanted to avoid this, she said, and asked if I might share the bed with her. Platonic once more, course – I was such a good friend that she knew she could trust me.
I agreed. She almost immediately made the sleeping arrangements public, and everyone then agreed amongst themselves how the other beds would be shared out so that everyone got a mattress and no-one got the floor. How wonderfully democratic, I thought.
The night passed, and we all ended up back at the flat, drunk and happy. People started to drift off to bed, and my friend went a good half an hour before I did. When she decided to go, she made a point of saying it multiple times, like we’d not heard her the first time. When I decided that it was time for sleep, I crept into the darkened room, and saw her silhouette as she lay facing away from me in what turned out to be a single bed. Oh – I wasn’t expecting that – I’d never asked what size the bed was. I quietly called her to see if she was a awake. She wasn’t. So, taking off my jacket, but keeping the rest of my clothes on, I squeezed under the duvet next to her. It immediately became apparent that she was naked from the waist down, with just a T-shirt on her top half. I lay on my back, not daring to move. Had she forgotten that she said we’d share the bed? Should I go elsewhere? I was drunk. I lay there for what seemed like an eternity, and then eventually fell asleep.
In the morning, I woke, and nursed my hangover. It was a work day, so I needed to get up, and out to work – in the same work clothes (yup, full suit) that I’d been wearing the day before, and that I’d just slept in. I pulled the duvet back, and then went to sit on the edge of the bed. Once more I was reminded that my friend was naked from the waist down, so I gently covered her back up. She stirred, then turned and smiled an uneasy and slightly perplexed hungover smile at me. For days afterwards, my friend kept mentioning what a nice night it had been.
Years of rumination have left me concluding me that this situation was far less clear cut than the other I mentioned, but I do still think that on balance my friend had intended for us to get intimate at bed time. I’d failed to spot her signals, and she had fallen asleep by the time I got to bed. Another beautiful woman, another completely missed set of signals. Another lifetime of haunting regret.
–
If you aren’t autistic, then you’ll probably think that I’m crazy sharing the above with you. It’s very personal stuff, and not the sort of thing that people talk about. Even I know that. If you have an ASD, then I wonder if you also feel I’m crazy, or if you actually understand. I’d be grateful to hear from you.
You see, this is an area of my life that has been greatly influenced by my Asperger’s and how it affects my ability to interact with other people. The stories I relate have swirled around in my head for many years now causing repeated hurt, and I’ve never told anyone about them. I don’t want them to haunt me for the rest of my life, and I’m hoping that by explaining them, I’ll help to exorcise their ghosts from my memory.
Perhaps the saddest thing of all is that another aspect of my neurological makeup means that I can’t remember the name of the young woman in the first tale. We worked together for at least eighteen months, and were close for several months, albeit without any intimacy. Whatever your name was, beautiful woman, I’m sorry.
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11 Responses to “Relationships with women and tales of regret”
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Jake on September 29th, 2009 (Quote)
James,
Well, where to begin? I think you’re brave to be so open. I feel apprehensive and vulnerable even writing a simple comment on this subject. To attempt to get to the point: I am hopeless at this whole relationship thing. I’m painfully shy, somewhat reclusive and easily hurt. I misread ‘the signals’ left, right and centre, and generally manage to appear somewhere between aloof and invisible. Small talk is an alien and seemingly pointless language. But I am intelligent, well-spoken and sometimes almost charming (or so I’m told).
Needless to say I am single, have had a small number of (failed) relationships, and can’t for the life of me imagine how I will ever find myself in another one. If I do then it will probably have been initiated by the other person and I’ll be so overwhelmed I won’t dream of saying no to her. But I’m almost as reticent in my thirties as I was in my teens, I avoid social situations whenever possible and I can feel perfectly alone in a room full of people. I study at a university that would present most men of my age an unthinkable pool of relationship opportunity. But I either don’t see it, don’t understand it or don’t know how to engage with it.
I understand your regret at missed opportunities. (I think I may have been there too, though I’m not entirely sure.) But I don’t think you’re crazy…
Jake
James on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
Jake,
Phew. So I’m not crazy. I didn’t think I was.
Amazingly, the article itself was easy to write. I think the detail of it has been wandering around inside my head for a long time – years in fact. Once I opened the door to let some of it out, it all just poured out without any difficulty at all. Quite a lot of the articles I write happen like that too.
If I can find a life partner, then ultimately so can you. It requires hard work, a lot of will power and the right sort of woman, and even then, luck will ultimately throw the final dice.
I have found that all of my successful long term relationships have been with strong and forthright women. Women that aren’t afraid to speak their minds, and who are happy to do the running if I’m not able to. These women have typically had a vulnerable side too, and in a very real sense, I have skills to offer the relationship that they lack just as much as they can help plug the gaps that are missing in me.
This is a very different way to select a suitable partner than the usual way, as far as I can tell, but maybe it is likely to be a more successful way.
My relationship with my wife started off on a very shaky footing, and it took a lot of hard work on my part to keep it going in the early days. It was tough and bewildering for me – no two ways about it. I think down inside I subconsciously knew that we were a good match. Maybe I’d had enough relationship experience to know what sort of skills and temperament a woman would need to get on with me – and I could see that she had them.
We’ve had our ups and downs, but ultimately, after seven and a half years we are still very accepting of each other and we make a good partnership that accentuates our respective strengths.
This may sound crazy, but have you tried online dating? I know that if I was single now, it is the method that I’d be using. Why? Because I can express myself far better in writing than by any other method.
You can take things at any pace you want, and only meet prospective dates after you’ve established a good written rapport.
Of course, you may be happier staying single. I crave alone time too, even in my (mostly) happy relationship.
AJ on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
I believe that this is very common for males with AS.
It is hard to interpret other people to begin with. Then add the pressure of romantic/sexual interest and it can be confusing and overwhelming. Women tend to give off subtle signals that are easily missed or misinterpreted. To us they are invisible.
We as males are expected to be the aggressor in pursuing a relationship. For myself this was nearly impossible. I have had a few serious relationships, but I never asked one of them out to start with. It was always the female who took action to begin things (like in your missed opportunity stories). I was only dating for a few years when I met my wife and got married. If that had not happened I would most likely have given up trying to find someone in a few years time. It was very stressful and uncomfortable. Full of anxiety and depression.
In hindsight things can seem so clear that it is easy to forget how unclear and confusing they were at the time.
James on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
Wise words, AJ.
I too have rarely been involved in the decision process to date – it has almost invariably been suggested by the woman involved. I have always said yes.
Only once in my travels through the world of intimate relationships have I initiated the end of the relationship. In every other case, she did the dismissing, and I almost invariably didn’t see it coming.
As I mentioned to Jake, above, I think that people in our shoes may have it a little easier in the dating game these days, due to Internet dating. At least this allows for a slow, written vetting process that doesn’t necessarily rely on first impressions.
cynsurf on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
Let me give you all the perspective of a female NT. I have a friend who I would like to be in a “dating” relationship with. I suspect he has AS having done some research which lead me to this site.
It is really helpful to hear James’ and other’s perspectives to help me to understand him. But last night I had all but decided that I can’t hang out with him anymore. I had called him up to ask him if he wanted to get together to talk and he turned me down (which is fine) but in such an abrupt, blunt way that it was hurtful. I didn’t tell him he was being hurtful I just got off the phone as fast as I could.
Now I understand that he didn’t know he was hurting me, didn’t intend to hurt me and would most likely be horrified to know that he hurt me. So my discussing this with him seems useless. But even though I know he didn’t intend it – it was still hurtful. And it is hard to hang out with someone – even as a friend who hurts you – no matter how unintentional.
I guess I need to either adjust my level of sensitivity – but it is hard to do that – or I need to have a long drawn out discussion about how he hurt me in detail so he can understand and frankly I don’t know if he cares that much to have that discussion. I don’t know how to find out if he wants to have that discussion. I don’t know if our relationship, at the level it is right now, is close enough for me to expect to have discussions like that.
So I just want to walk away, say nothing, and lick my wounds. I imagine that this happens to people with AS all the time. People walk away and they never know why. Sometimes I think he is just happy alone in his own little world and I am just disrupting it to try and have a relationship – even a friendship with him.
So I guess I am trying to say that if you feel misunderstood as a person with AS, understand that a NT person also feels misunderstood when interacting with you. I can accept that since I have more social skills and can explain things well that I should bear more of the burden to make the effort, the first move, etc. It is just hard to know if that is what the person with AS even wants. How do you discover that?
James on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
Hi cynsurf,
Whilst I can’t possibly know the motives of your friend, I do wonder if perhaps you interrupted him from something he was deeply involved in when you called him?
When I get interrupted, I tend to be grumpy, and forget my manners. Context can be lost over the phone, which may have made this sort of thing even less obvious. He may well have been trying to convey the whole, “can’t you tell I’m busy?” thing, but without it coming across over the phone at all.
Just a thought.
If he is anything like me, he will be very happy in his aloneness some of the time – indeed he’ll crave it if he doesn’t get it. However I also crave interaction and intimacy with others, and I’d guess he does too. I’m not always in control of which of these sets of desires I need at any given time, and I often can’t articulate what I need.
You do seem to understand him well. I’d bet you are right that he’d feel terrible if he thought he’d upset you, and that he wasn’t meaning to.
For what it’s worth – and I can kind of see you dancing around this sort of thing in your comments – if you do end up in a relationship with this chap, he will keep the mannerisms and moods that he has now. In other words, he won’t change. He’ll open up to you, in time, but he’ll still at times feel unapproachable or seem rude. At times he’ll want to be alone, even if he doesn’t tell you. As you already know, he won’t mean to be like this – it’s just the way he is.
If you are the sort of woman who can see past that sort of thing to the kind-hearted man inside, then you may end up with a loving, deep and long lasting relationship.
Only you know whether that is the case or not.
Why not take it slow and not jump to any decisions? Can you email him? Writing often works a treat.
Was all that a little to blunt? I hope not.
cynsurf on September 30th, 2009 (Quote)
Thanks James – that was not too blunt. I appreciate your thoughtful responses. It helps me to understand the whole AS perspective better. Reading your blog this morning about missed opportunities encouraged me to hang in and keep working on this relationship no matter how it turns out. I figure that it will become obvious over time where it is going.
James on October 1st, 2009 (Quote)
Yup, I’m sure it will become obvious in time.
I know that I’m often difficult to read, but that over time my wife has found it easier and easier to guess correctly. If you sty friendly with this chap, then chance are you’ll start to understand his dynamics better too.
Wiener on October 1st, 2009 (Quote)
Wow, you pretty much summed up my whole experience with women up until this point. Frankly most of what you write about on your blog fits me to a tee (and I’ve read it all), but this hit especially close to home.
Like you, I almost always start out as the “male girl-friend”. That nice and gentle guy she can open up to and be herself around. I just can’t do the open and direct flirting most of my peers do, and quite frankly I rarely want to flirt with a girl when I first meet her. Seems shallow and superficial somehow. I don’t know if I even like her yet.
But, as the relationship (in the friendly sense) evolves and the signs and hints towards something more happen, I completely miss them and when this has gone on long enough I inevitably end up back as the “male girl-friend”, and in most cases we eventually drift apart. Like with most friends I make.
Looking back I can think of a handful of situations just like you described where I’ve completely missed the signs, and I can sit and beat myself up about it for hours. I’m currently single, I’ve always been single, and I can’t imagine ever moving past that friend stage with a woman. I just don’t know how. Any hints she may send my way go overlooked until later, when the moment is gone. The signs I try to put out there are obviously not interpreted correctly either, or I simply don’t get that they are…
That’s why I must admit I find your life very interesting, because you obviously did manage to move past this at some point. If you don’t mind me asking about an intensely private subject like this (Is this inappropriate? I never can tell.
), how did you eventually end up with your wife? Perhaps a subject for a blog post at some point?
Thanks for putting your thoughts here on this blog though. You’ve opened my eyes to so many sides of my own personality. I’m currently in the undiagnosed-and-wondering phase, so the traits I recognise from your posts are making my more and more sure I am indeed an Aspie.
James on October 2nd, 2009 (Quote)
Hi Weiner,
Thanks for the lovely comments about the blog.
Writing how I have managed to get into relationships is a good idea – I’ll add it to the list of things to write about, and no, I don’t think it’s an inappropriate thing to ask.
In short, in all of the relationships I’ve been in, the woman did the running, and found a way that allowed me to communicate. This generally wasn’t the traditional face to face spoken way of hooking up.
If you play to your skills, then deep meaningful relationships are entirely possible. You just have to accept that you are very unlikely to get them in the traditional way that your NT peers use.
It’s good to have you on board – I hope you stick around and continue to contribute.
James
jonah on October 3rd, 2009 (Quote)
Sigh. This post speaks to me. Beautifully written.